[Crater-team] Comparison of GLACE and REDMoon lunar albedo models

[Jody Wilson]

Hello Mark and Harlan,

I agree it can't hurt to notify Dobynde and Guo about your correction in 
advance of submitting the paper.
I don't know them, but I expect many people in their position to resist 
changing their minds on something like this.
Isotropic "luminosity" from a surface is a non-intuitive geometrical 
problem that people can really struggle with.

-Jody


On 2/28/2024 10:24 AM, Harlan Spence wrote:
>
> Hi Mark,
>
>    Great work and thanks for the efficient and clear summary.  I’d 
> wager that the most collegial thing to do is to alert them to your 
> assessment of the correction factor.   That can be done in the context 
> of your about to submit a paper comparing your results to theirs.    
> That would give them a chance to review and if they concur, even offer 
> up a revision to those aspects of their paper.   That would make your 
> job in comparing somewhat easier and less fraught with contention.  If 
> they disagree, then you can raise the issue in your paper and let the 
> community (and review process) decide on its own.
>
>     I do not know Dobynde, but we have interacted with Guo who seems 
> pretty reasonable.  I think it would be worth your reaching out to 
> them in advance of submitting your paper just to give them advance 
> notice and a chance to remedy things on their end.
>
>    I’m interested in what others think, too!
>
> Thanks, - Harlan
>
> _________________________________
>
> Dr. Harlan E. Spence
>
> Director, Institute for the Study of Earth,
>
>    Oceans, and Space
>
> Professor of Physics and Astronomy
>
> Morse Hall, Room 306
>
> University of New Hampshire
>
> 8 College Road
>
> Durham, NH 03824-3525
>
> Phone: 603-862-0322
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>
> Twitter: @HarlanSpence2
>
> ____________________________________
>
> *From: *Crater-team <crater-team-bounces at lists.sr.unh.edu> on behalf 
> of Mark D Looper <mark.d.looper at aero.org>
> *Date: *Tuesday, February 27, 2024 at 5:20 PM
> *To: *crater-team at lists.sr.unh.edu <crater-team at lists.sr.unh.edu>
> *Cc: *Timothy B Guild <timothy.b.guild at aero.org>
> *Subject: *[Crater-team] Comparison of GLACE and REDMoon lunar albedo 
> models
>
> Hello—
>
>                 This took longer than I had planned, in part because I 
> was trying to be _/very/_ sure that I was right.  You’ll recall that 
> Dobynde & Guo, JGR Planets (2021), DOI: 10.1029/2021JE006930, came out 
> with a model called REDMoon of GCR secondary particles tabulating 
> upward and downward fluxes at and below the lunar surface.  Since 
> GLACE focuses on upward fluxes at and above the lunar surface, they 
> are complementary, and I thought it would be valuable to compare our 
> results with theirs.  Since they provided tables of the values that 
> went into the figures of their paper (thank you, AGU “Open Science” 
> requirements!) via Zenodo, I was able to plot their upward particle 
> fluxes in the same format as the GLACE fluxes, and I assembled the 
> attached PPTX to compare the two.
>
>                 You may recall that in 2018 we had a joint meeting 
> with the LRO/LEND team, and I concluded that they had left out a 
> cosine factor in the normalization of their simulations of albedo 
> neutrons.  The REDMoon model contains the same error, as described 
> (and corrected) in the attached PPTX.  The comparisons actually don’t 
> look half bad, given differences of GCR model, regolith composition, 
> and physics list, once the corrections are applied. However, I don’t 
> want to catch them by surprise with a fundamental criticism of their 
> results (especially if they end up as reviewers of our paper, right?); 
> moreover, they are “working on building a user-friendly online 
> platform” to make their model results broadly available, so I’d like 
> to get them the correction before they put that into production.  What 
> do you think would be the most collegial way to approach this?
>
>                 I’m going to put the discussion of normalization from 
> the attached PPTX (which I lifted from a PPTX I generated after our 
> LEND meeting over five years ago!) as an appendix to the GLACE paper; 
> it may be the most useful piece of the whole darn thing over the long 
> term…
>
> Thanks—
>
> --Mark
>
> Mark D. Looper, PhD
> Space Sciences Department
> The Aerospace Corporation
> M/S M2-260
> P.O. Box 92957
> Los Angeles, CA 90009-2957
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>
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